Linda Wilton interview

Flloyd

Thunder's Mouth Theatre Presents Am I Old Yet? Although this week I'm continuing with the occasional series of interviews that I'm calling "Are You Old Yet?" in which I engage in conversations, and interview some friends and colleagues of mine, all of whom have passed their 70th birthday while still being as creatively active as they ever have been. So, Linda Wilton, we just met a few months ago here in Liverpool.

Linda

Yes.

Flloyd

Totally out of the blue, we found ourselves sitting next to each other at a concert in the music room at the Liverpool Philharmonic, and we got chatting and you told me some few things about your life and I thought, oh, my goodness, I should be making a podcast in which I interview Linda and people like Linda about their lives. People who work in are still involved in creative activity way past our 70s.

Linda

Yes.

Flloyd

So that is my only rule is, to be on this podcast you have to be over 70.

Linda

Yes, I am.

Flloyd

So, Linda, tell us, tell the listener a little bit about yourself. Who are you? Where are you from? And how did you get to here?

Linda

Gosh, as I said, it's been a long life. There's a lot to talk about, but I'm originally from Liverpool and I'm desperate to move back and I think I'm going to try and do something about it this year.

Flloyd

Oh, cool. Come closer to me. Although I might have to move out, but that's another story.

Linda

I've danced all my life. I was sent to ballet lessons by the doctor.

Flloyd

Oh, now that's interesting, .

Linda

because I was knock-kneed and flat footed and he said it would help.

Flloyd

And did it.

Linda

Yeah, but like all children, I was about five. All children dance about, don't they?

Flloyd

Yeah.

Linda

My mother took me to a dance class close to where we lived.

Flloyd

Yes.

Linda

And she played the piano for the dance class.

Flloyd

Your mother?

Linda

Yes.

Flloyd

Oh, lovely.

Linda

Yes. So there's always been music in the family. I was an only child, the only grandchild to my grandparents up here. Well, I've got lots of cousins in Somerset, but that's a long way away.

Flloyd

Oh, right.

Linda

So every New Year's Eve used to go to my grandmother's house and sing around the piano. And there were lots of local relatives there and there was no television, no internet. It was all live.

Flloyd

Yes.

Linda

So I grew up with music and singing, and then, of course, I went to the dance classes. Didn't like the ballet very much. In fact, I think I hated it. But I discovered tap and rhythm. That was fun and it was exciting. And then I saw Fred Astaire, so that was it for me. I wanted to be a dancer. That's all I ever wanted to be.

Flloyd

Yeah.

Linda

And eventually I changed dance teachers a few times and got to a decent level. So I became a professional dancer, doing variety and those kind of shows. I also was involved in amateur theatre in musicals here in Liverpool? Well, there in Liverpool, at the Royal Court and then the Empire. I did lots of musicals as a singer and as a dancer. I originally started as a dancer, but then I became a singer within the group.

Flloyd

Yeah.

Linda

So I became a professional dancer. I did a couple of years at Butlins, which was thrilling yes. On nine pounds a week.

Flloyd

Oh, wow. That was my first wage, too. Bank clerk.

Linda

Well, I worked in the education service before that on 36 pounds a month, so it's the same pay.

Flloyd

Yeah. Really?

Linda

But less exciting. Yes. A couple of years at Butlins, doing red coat duties as well. Bingo calling. Helping with the knobbly knees contest.

Flloyd

So it really was Hi-de-Hi, only real.

Linda

Oh, yeah. Seconding a boxing match, meeting the campers off the train as they arrived and taking them to the camp. I danced in the show. We did four shows a week, I think, and we had some guest artists on a Sunday. We had Ken Dodd and what's his name, the comedian Parrot Face Davis. Do you remember him?

Flloyd

No. Probably before my time, before I was over here. All right, not before my time, but my time in the UK.

Linda

Yeah, okay. And Jewel Morris and but they know the comedians of the time, so that was interesting. Then I did panto in bath.

Flloyd

Wow.

Linda

I was in Goldilocks and the Three Bears, and I nearly got the part of the Mother Bear for an extra ten bob a week, but the head wouldn't fit.

Flloyd

Oh, dear. Hashtag actor's life, eh? Yeah.

Linda

So I did a few shows and then I got pregnant, had a baby. So you can't tour doing shows when you've got a know. So I decided to train as a teacher, as a school teacher.

Flloyd

Right. And where were you at that point? Where were you living?

Linda

Still in Liverpool.

Flloyd

All right, yes.

Linda

And I went to Ethel Wermel College in Mount Pleasant, which is not there anymore, I think it's still part of the university, I don't know. So I went there as a mature student. There were lots of mature students, we all had children to go home to. We had Wednesday afternoons off to do the housework or the shopping.

Flloyd

That's very thoughtful of them.

Linda

So I couldn't train as a dance teacher for schools because the only way I could do that would be to go to a PE college, which is sadly just closed this year. That was the only place you could do dance in Liverpool.

Flloyd

Right.

Linda

And I'm not a sporty person, never have been. So I trained as a music teacher and did that for several years in different places. I never really wanted to be a teacher, I wasn't cut out for it, but getting into college was interesting because I didn't have enough O levels to get in, you had to have five, and I only had four, so I was accepted at the college, but they said, no, you'll have to get another one. And I'd failed O level physics twice, so I said, I'll have another go at that, and I failed it again.

So they called me into the office at the college. Obviously, I had to leave it for a year because I was too late. Then called me into the office and said, there's the book with all the O levels you can take. Go through it and find one you think you can do. And I found O level ballet.

Flloyd

Wow.

Linda

So I did O level ballet.

Flloyd

Fantastic. Who would have known that you could do O level ballet?

Linda

Yes. And the principal of the college said to me, well, what do you have to do for that? Just skip about a bit?. But I had to learn all the history of ballet and I had to do a physical ballet exam.

Flloyd

Yes.

Linda

But then also to do with dance. Later on, I trained as a ballet teacher. I had to do my physical ballet exams, which you normally do at 18, and I was about 26.

Flloyd

Right.

Linda

I had to do those, and I had to learn how to teach children. I went to London to do the exam. I had to teach in front of the examiner and they gave me a professional level student and they told me to correct what she was doing. She was absolutely perfect. They also gave me some little children from the Royal Ballet School to teach as well.

Flloyd

Wow.

Linda

And I had to do an anatomy exam, so I got through all that. And then I was a qualified ballet teacher, so I taught that at the weekends as well, while still teaching in schools, teaching music and a bit of drama. But actually, I never had a permanent teaching job. I got lots of supply work, so short term contracts, then got a job as a Dance advisory teacher in it was interesting. And my last job before I retired was in a secondary special school. Pupils with serious behavior issues, ADHD and also physical disabilities and learning difficulties.

And I loved that. Had one boy in particular who was extremely challenging. He joined us a year late. He joined in year eight, and I used to have them on a Monday morning. And he came from a very aggressive background. And he came in and he said, I'm not doing dance. Dance is enough for boys. He got very aggressive. All the other kids wound up. Some of them were fighting, some of them were in tears.

Flloyd

Oh, wow.

Linda

And then he'd go to an English class after me, and the teacher said to me, what have you done to them? But after a term, he decided he liked it. Not only did he like it, he was good at it. And he wanted to do GCSE dance, which we couldn't facilitate. We didn't have the time or the money. But he ended up performing at the Lowry, and it was stunning. After that, he loved dance and he loved math and he loved art.

Flloyd

Yeah.

Linda

The rest of the time he was an absolute nightmare. He was expelled a couple of times.

Flloyd

Well, it's often the way the most challenging, disruptive kids are actually the most able, but know it.

Linda

Yes.

Flloyd

And find where to put their energies somewhere constructive. Yeah.

Linda

I also had another star pupil during all our time in short term jobs in schools, I was teaching GCSE and A Level dance in Liverpool at a stage school. Really? Merseyside Dance and Drama Centre, and they wanted to get some educational recognition, really. So I taught GCSE and A Level dance and I had another star pupil there, got top marks in the A level. Yeah. He was brilliant. So that was my kind of checkered career up to then. And I decided I didn't really want to teach anymore because I've never really enjoyed it. And I got, again, a temporary job, a maternity leave job at the Dance organization in Manchester, Dance Initiative Greater Manchester, which supports dance artists across Greater Manchester.

So I was going into schools, but I was also working with dance artists in different settings, getting professional companies into schools. So that was really interesting. Without the challenges of preparing lessons and marking homework and stuff like that.

Flloyd

Yeah. Now, I have to ask you, Linda, how did this end up being Argentine tango?

Linda

Well, I was just coming to that, because while I was in that job, I used to have to deal with the mail and filing and stuff like that, and something came in a booklet for dance holidays. There was one in Argentina to learn the Argentine tango. Now, I'd been visiting my daughter in London a few months before. I'd never seen or heard of Argentine tango, but there was a big dance festival at the Festival Hall, and there was a couple doing this dance in the corner. And I said, what is it and where can I learn?

Because I was teaching in Luton at the time.

Flloyd

What's that teacher?

Linda

Juan Carlos Copez.

Flloyd

Thank you.

Linda

Actually, the COVID got him.

Flloyd

Oh, no.

Linda

Yes, just before his nintieth birthday.

Flloyd

Yeah.

Linda

But he was a fantastic teacher. Also, while I'd been teaching in Luton and going to London, I'd seen him in a show touring in Europe called Tango Argentino, and he was the lead dancer in that. So I managed to get lessons with him. Went out dancing every night. Although dancing is maybe not the right way to say it's very difficult to get an Argentinian man to dance with you. There's a lot of etiquette involved. But also, they won't dance with you if they haven't seen you dance in case you're not good enough. Yes. Then they don't come and ask you.

They use caboseo, they look across the room and just...

Flloyd

For the listener, Linda is doing a kind of an upside down wink.

Linda

Well, exactly. And you think, Is it me? Is it someone behind me?

Flloyd

Yeah.

Linda

So when you do realize, you get up and you meet in the middle of the floor and then they don't dance straight away, they talk. And I didn't speak Spanish so that.

Flloyd

Would be a problem.

Linda

So I just kept saying see, I didn't know what it was saying yes to. They're not all good dancers just because they live in Buenos Aires, but yes, I thoroughly enjoyed the time there. Oh, and my daughter, when I said I was going to Argentina, she said, Can I come with you? So of course I said yes. She said afterwards, I only came because I was worried about you going to South America by yourself.

Flloyd

How old was your daughter at this stage?

Linda

We went in 2001, so have to do me maths now.

Flloyd

Yeah, 23.

Linda

Yeah. She'd never danced tango before and we had lessons every day in the hotel. And I remember going up to the room one night and she said, I can't do this, I can't do it. But then eventually she got very good at it and she was living in London at the time and there were lots of places to go and dance Tango. So when we got back, she became very, very good. There was nowhere to dance here. Dance tango. I used to go to Leeds maybe once. I know. Anyway, the people who took me to Buenos Aires, they taught tango in London and they said they would come and teach tango for me here just as a one off.

And they came and they taught and then eventually they helped me to teach tango. So I started teaching tango up here and then know, it's all getting jumbled up in my head now, but I met Francisco who was doing the concert. You were at Francisco Carrasco.

Flloyd

There you yeah, yeah.

Linda

So he had a bar at the time or he was just about to open a bar and he had a big space that we could dance in. I started teaching there and he helped me to get some lottery funding. I got 10,000 pounds from the National Lottery to bring tango teachers here.

Flloyd

Right.

Linda

So I used to have someone coming once a month, different teachers each month, mostly Argentinians and Colombians who teach in London. And they would come up here. Yes.

Flloyd

What's the second name?

Linda

They need lessons in between. So that's when I started to increase my teaching tango. And then I think you have to use all the money or send it back, basically. I think you have to use it within a year.

Flloyd

Yeah, I think so.

Linda

Yeah. So obviously I used it all. So we had some fabulous teachers here. And then unfortunately, Francisco's bar closed very suddenly and I had no venue and the money had run out as well. I found another venue, but people didn't like it. And then someone else started Tango Pluses somewhere else. So that was the end of it, really.

Flloyd

Oh, right.

Linda

Yeah. The other Tango Plus is still going strong, actually.

Flloyd

Well, that's a good thing.

Linda

Yeah. I went back to Argentina as well, in 2006, and on that point, I must say that I was supposed to go back in 2020, but COVID happened.

Flloyd

It did, yes.

Linda

And a lot of my friends in Argentina had to stop their classes because of COVID so they started doing them on zoom.

Flloyd

Oh right!

Linda

So I did some classes on zoom in my living room. Without a partner.

Flloyd

Yes. It's amazing what you can do when you have to.

Linda

Exactly. And one night I was in the class and he kept saying to me, do it again, Linda, do it again, do it again, and I did it again, and I got this excruciating pain in my foot, and I thought I said, Right, stop, and it was in the ball of the foot. I've never had pain there before. And I was doing another tango class with some other friends the following night and I had to stop. And basically I haven't done since, really. Had physio, had acupuncture, cortisone injections, but it's still not right.

Flloyd

No, not right. Yes.

Linda

So earlier this year, I met someone who knew this orthopedic surgeon consultant in Oswestry. They've got a big orthopedic hospital there, all right? And I'd seen the consultant here and he wanted to break all my toes and put them back together. He said at least six months recovery and I would need care and no guarantee it would work, but this lady told me that the guy in Oswestry will not operate unless that's the only option.

Flloyd

Right.

Linda

And unfortunately, he decided it is the only option. So it's a twelve month wait. He's given me two surgical options. You get used to the pain after a while, and I'm not going to sit at home for another twelve months, so I'm going to get out and dance.

Flloyd

Yes.

Linda

And stop when it hurts and carry on if it doesn't.

Flloyd

Yes. Which brings me to the elephant in the room, which is the question that I have to ask all of my guests. Linda, are you old yet?

Linda

No! If you'd asked me last week, I'd have said yes.

Flloyd

Now, that's interesting, isn't it? Yeah, because it depends, doesn't it?

Linda

I've been quite unwell the last couple of weeks, and I've got a pacemaker, but I had an echo on my heart as well. I've also sung a lot since I was about 15, 16, and last October I got a chest infection and then I got another chest infection. Had three chest infections between October and January. I had no voice till Easter. It's still not right today. I've been doing a bit of singing today and I get halfway through and it just goes why was I telling you that? I don't know. I should have been in the when it was coming back towards the end of January, I joined the Chester Mystery Players as a singer and a dancer, really?

But then I had to drop out because the voice went again. As I say, it didn't really come back till Easter. I've been getting pains in my legs, which I've not had before. Worried about that. I'm worried about all sorts of health issues.

Flloyd

Yes.

Linda

And I was told in January I had heart failure.

Flloyd

Oh, charming. Yeah.

Linda

And then I read on Ancestry that one of my ancestors died of heart failure.

Flloyd

So I'm thinking, Well, I'm sure everybody's got an ancestor who died of heart failure.

Linda

And I said, Well, I've got pacemaker. Doesn't that make a difference? No. So we'd have to refer you to the heart failure clinic. Well, this was in January and I still haven't heard anything. To me, that's urgent.

Flloyd

Yeah, well, when you use the word failure, it does sound kind of final, doesn't it?

Linda

Yes.

Flloyd

I've never heard that used as a medical term. I've only ever heard it used as somebody died of it. It's immediate. When your heart fails, it's failed, and that's you dead. So what are they doing? Telling you you've got it, but they don't need to see you tomorrow? That's the weirdest thing.

Linda

I've had blood tests for everything and everything's fine, but I've been worrying that they weren't fine and now everything is fine.

Flloyd

Yes, and worry is the worst part. You can die from worrying. Exactly.

Linda

I'm sitting here in the house on my own, haven't been out dancing, so I've missed all the social side of it. I would have said I felt old last week.

Flloyd

Yes.

Linda

But not this week.

Flloyd

But not this week.

Linda

So I'm getting back to dancing. I did two sessions of salsa in Princess Park, but that was rained off and now it's canceled altogether because yeah.

Flloyd

I was hoping to get to that and I couldn't.

Linda

When it's not been rained off, the grass has been too wet. So now I'm drumming in Princess Park on a Thursday. So I'm going tonight. And that's never been rained off, strangely enough, and I'm getting back to doing things.

Flloyd

Yes.

Linda

And that's essential, really. I've now been asked by someone in church if I will start I'm not sure if she knows what she wants to start a ballet bar type class for the older ladies, so they're all my sort of age range. And now she's got 15 people interested, so I'm not sure they know what they're coming to or what they really want, and I'm not quite sure what to teach them. But I think between us, we'll come up with something.

Flloyd

Yeah, well, I haven't done ballet since I was eight years old, but I'd be vaguely interested. Yeah. Just to be doing something. Yeah, well, listen, I know that I have to get out more and engage more with people outside of the zoom world.

Linda

Yeah, well, I live in Runcorn, so it would be a bit tricky for you, although the train comes quite close to where I would be doing it. I'm desperate to move back to Liverpool, and I'm starting to make some progress towards that.

Flloyd

Yeah, well, I'll just have to stick around and not be too old by the time you get here. In terms that we mean is that we sort of kind of seem to be on the same plane that old is. I mean, the word old just carries so much baggage, it's really boring. But there is an age where we are technically old, because we're not young, we're not middle aged, so we got to be something. And what is the word for it? The word is old, but we're not old? Is there another word.

Linda

Sorry. Elders.

Flloyd

Elders? Yes.

Linda

Boomers. Who? Boomers.

Flloyd

If you're a boomer, I'm older than you are.

Linda

Right, okay.

Flloyd

Because I'm not a boomer. I'm a war baby.

Linda

Right.

Flloyd

I was born in 44.

Linda

I'm 46.

Flloyd

So you are a boomer, so that's fine. But don't forget there's war babies backing you up.

Linda

You see, my maternal grandmother and her husband both died at the age of 70, which was seemed to be quite old then.

Flloyd

That's right.

Linda

They died in 1964. I lost all four grandparents in the same year, actually, but that was quite old.

Flloyd

Yes.

Linda

And my mother died at 80. But she was a very intelligent woman, very domineering, but she was a very intelligent woman. And when she retired, that was it. She worked for the Citizens Advice Bureau. After she retired, she was a volunteer and did the job very well, but she didn't drive, and then getting there in the winter was difficult, so she gave that up. And then she went to the Pensioners Club at the end of the road and she said, "I'm not going there anymore. It's full of old people". Yes, but then she ended up sitting at home watching daytime television.

Coronation street was on in the afternoon, so she didn't know whether it was afternoon or evening. She went downhill quite rapidly, really.

Flloyd

That's exactly what happens.

Linda

She hung on till her 80th birthday, then she went I think we're as older people, more mature people, although I don't know that I'm very mature, really.

Flloyd

No, we don't want to be that.

Linda

No. In the last couple of months, I'm maybe starting in heading in the direction of maybe growing up a little bit, but we're more active than our parents and grandparents ever were, aren't we?

Flloyd

Well, I'm not more active than my mother was. She was 101 when she finally decided it was time for her to go into the care home next door because she didn't want to be in the house on her own anymore. She was in sheltered accommodation, semidetached house. As I say, she had passed her 101st birthday when she decided that she really needed to be in a place with people around looking after her, but very determined that she wasn't going to be like the ones who were already in there, who just sat in the big armchairs all day long, falling asleep.

But of course it wasn't very long because she was dozing dozing off in the big armchairs.

Linda

My mum ended up in one of those places. She was probably about the same age I am now, which is scary. I remember going to visit one day and they were all in the big chairs with the television on, with children's television on another day I went on and the cricket was on. They didn't go in and change the channels, they just left the television on all day, regardless of what was on.

Flloyd

And I think that really is our current definition, if you like, of old is when you've given up. And you and I are different ages. There's two years between us. I've got friends who are a couple of years older than me. But the thing is, we're all active, we're doing stuff. We might not be getting paid for it, but we're still doing stuff. And that, it seems to me, is the thing that makes younger people. If I say the word old but you're not old, because old does seem to mean no longer of any use. It's how we talk about objects when they're old.

You chuck them out, you get rid of them, recycle, whatever. But when it comes to people, you don't classify it as old until you've reached that point where basically your health has broken down to the extent the body has degenerated. My mother used to love telling this story. She was about 92 and she'd gone to the doctor for her regular checkup, and he had said, well, there's nothing new, you're absolutely fine, apart from natural age related degeneration. And she reveled in being able to tell everyone that she was a degenerate from that time on.

Linda

Well, as you realize by now, my whole life has been centered around dance. "You don't stop dancing because you're old, you become old because you stop dancing".

Flloyd

Exactly.

Linda

I've realized that over the last couple of years, when I hadn't done it.

Flloyd

Yeah.

Linda

During Lockdown, I was doing online tango classes, argentinian folk dance, flamenco.

Flloyd

Wow.

Linda

I did tap with a guy in New York who was absolutely brilliant. All of a sudden, it all stopped because of a foot. I went to a wonderful dance performance at the Capstone on Saturday by a fully integrated dance company with wheelchair users and adults with learning difficulties. I do sign language as well, and with a sign language choir. And this performance had a sign interpreter, and I went to meet them afterwards, and I spoke to the lady in the wheelchair who was also a signer, and I said, having watched them, I don't need this foot to be a dancer.

Actually, I started an integrated dance company in Chester back in '99, 2000. We had wheelchair users, adults with learning difficulties, and full time dance students and just young people who were interested. And we performed at the Lowry during the Commonwealth Games. We also performed for Royalty during the Commonwealth Games and got a standing ovation that was Prince Edward. And we performed in France as well, out in the open. So I've had lots of different dance experiences, all of which have been interesting in different ways.

Flloyd

Yes. And what you're know, now starting to think you don't need that foot to dance.

Linda

No.

Flloyd

Because you're realizing the adaptation is the name of the game.

Linda

Yeah, because I can sit here now and dance with my arms, my head, my eyes.

Flloyd

Yeah.

Linda

And this adult ballet class needn't be a ballet class. It's going to be a movement class. And they can do it sitting down if they have to.

Flloyd

Yes.

Linda

The one thing I forgot to mention, I'm also with an over 50s dance company in Liverpool called Growing Old Disgracefully.

Flloyd

Love it.

Linda

And we've been together about 23, 24 years. Started out as an over 40's dance company.

Flloyd

and then they couldn't get rid of you.

Linda

Well, now it's an over 50's dance company. I don't know why it can't still be an over 40's dance company, really.

Flloyd

Maybe they have to have some kind of limit on the numbers.

Linda

Well, we took on some new people this year who were all probably over 60. I was at Luma yesterday, Luma Creations, talking about funding for them. Now, they've got a lovely studio at Hope University in Childwall, great parking, but it's going to be much more expensive. So they're talking about putting up our subs. Well, I can barely afford it now, so I was talking to Max at Luma yesterday about possibilities of funding for it.

Flloyd

It's the way to go. Yeah. If they can get it subsidized somehow.

Linda

Funding is always an issue for us.

Flloyd

Well, anything in the arts, it's an issue.

Linda

A lot of it has gone this year. I don't know if you've seen the Brazilica Carnival each year in Liverpool for 20 years. It should have happened last Saturday. I mean, the Epstein Theater is closed.

Flloyd

Not good.

Linda

Liverpool City Council has got money.

Flloyd

Yes. And look, it's putting it into stupid office, high rise buildings that nobody wants. It's just so short sighted, really. It's always short sighted to limit funding. The arts.

Linda

Always.

Flloyd

Arts is a long term advantage that you give to your community if you fund the creative.

Linda

Talking about funding for this class I'm going to do in church, and he was saying there must be something from the NHS, because if older people exercise together, they're working on keeping up the strength in the body, but it's also the social thing, so they're no longer isolated, which takes the burden off the NHS.

Flloyd

Absolutely, yes. Preventative. And I'm so impressed with what you've done with your life, all your life story, all of your activities and what you're doing now, which seems, if you add it.

Linda

All up.

Flloyd

You're doing even more well.

Linda

To be honest, until this foot thing, I was doing more dancing since retirement than I ever did when I was teaching or performing professionally.

Flloyd

Wow, that's phenomenal.

Linda

But I must read you this poem.

Flloyd

Yeah.

Linda

When I retired, I'd been off with depression and anxiety for a few weeks. But also I made the decision to retire, so I'd gone about three months over retirement age. In the meantime, while I was still off sick with the depression, I went to a conference in Liverpool about the aging dancer.

Flloyd

Oh, yeah.

Linda

And we performed there with the Growing Oldest Gracefully Group and a lot of other older artists. But this poem was in the program. I'll just read it to you. This really struck me, but it's called "The Two Pots". 

A thousand streams flow into a river. 

The raging river runs on and on to become a tumbling waterfall on the river's peaceful banks, a thousand stories unfold. 

The wise woman carried two pots to fetch water from the river. One was new and the other was old and cracked every day. 

When she got back from the river, the new pot was still full to the brim.

While the old pot was empty, the old pot thought her days were over. 

She was sure the wise woman would throw her away. 

Immersed in her own sadness, the old pot scarcely noticed the trail of bright flowers that grew along the path to the river. 

The wise woman smiled and said, when you thought you were leaking and spilling, you were watering the seeds I planted every step of the way. 

You have a new life and a new use. I could never throw you away.

Flloyd

And my huge thanks to Linda Wilton for coming on and chatting with me about her life, her experience of teaching and learning and passing on her dance experience and the fact that she's continuing to do it in her own way. 

I'd also like to give a call out to my beautiful patrons over on Patreon.com for supporting the work of this podcast. I'm so grateful. It's just wonderful. Thank you. Well, that's it for now. Thank you for listening. Stay safe.